Comments on: Dongshan’s No Grass http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/ Commentaries on Meditation, Zen, Buddhism, and Mindfulness Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:00:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Wade http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12231 Wade Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:55:13 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12231 @Joe, Wow. Awesome koan. My take is that it's not that thing's don't arise, to deny that would be to deny reality. There is state changes. What's to see is that the state changes take place in a state that does not change. For there to be beginning and end, to space required for that means there is more than that. And that is the eternal. Do not think of origin, experience and live, as Cedric would say. My personal Koan of the moment will be posted in the next few days. The ex-Abbotess of San Francisco Zen Center spoke of it the other night in a Dharma talk. May all beings be happy. Wade @Joe,

Wow. Awesome koan. My take is that it’s not that thing’s don’t arise, to deny that would be to deny reality. There is state changes. What’s to see is that the state changes take place in a state that does not change. For there to be beginning and end, to space required for that means there is more than that. And that is the eternal.

Do not think of origin, experience and live, as Cedric would say.

My personal Koan of the moment will be posted in the next few days. The ex-Abbotess of San Francisco Zen Center spoke of it the other night in a Dharma talk.

May all beings be happy.

Wade

]]> By: joseph doherty http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12229 joseph doherty Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:25:31 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12229 I especially like the one about finding a stick with one end. Or my personal Koan that baffles me always when I attempt to contemplate it. It goes like this..... Of course it is easy to Imagine and manage a thought that has no end;much harder still to imagine or to manage that being endless, that it never actually began. I am trying to contemplate the origin of no origin, and it literally short circuits my brain. I can not stretch my imagination wide enough to en compensate everywhere,and every when. Thanks for reminding me,now where is that stick? Joe.. I especially like the one about finding a stick with one end.
Or my personal Koan that baffles me always when I attempt to contemplate it.
It goes like this…..

Of course it is easy to Imagine and manage a thought that has no end;much harder still to imagine or to manage that being endless, that it never actually began.

I am trying to contemplate the origin of no origin,
and it literally short circuits my brain.
I can not stretch my imagination wide enough

to en compensate everywhere,and every when.

Thanks for reminding me,now where is that stick?

Joe..

]]> By: Fayan’s Boat or Land http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12206 Fayan’s Boat or Land Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:58:10 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-12206 [...] Completely lost is the true pure mind of original man. Welcome back to our investigation of Koans, sometimes called Koan Study. This time we study Fayan’s Boat or Land from the Book of [...] [...] Completely lost is the true pure mind of original man. Welcome back to our investigation of Koans, sometimes called Koan Study. This time we study Fayan’s Boat or Land from the Book of [...]

]]> By: Wade http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11777 Wade Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:23:49 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11777 @Marnix; Thanks for both of your comments. Koans _can_ be studied without being formally given by a teacher. They are still very useful and can illuminate the way. I have heard dharma talks given by teachers to the general public about Koans. The difference as I see it is that not being formal, it's not part of a student training. Blue Cliff Record, The True Dharma Eye etc are books containing Rinzai and Soto Koans, there's even a book out there containing 'the answers' to the koans that was published around 1970. I hear teachers can smell a 'cheating' student a mile away :) Thank for your encouragement, we will continue to work with these Koans when I get access to the books again. I've got one saved up but haven't had time to work with it. @Matthew&Marnix; I like your points of view of the dancer and learning/developing. @Nick; Yup, that's the correct plural. Thank you also for your support of the koans. I agree with you, there's no need to be anyone or anything to read and investigate a koan. They are just as personal and reflective to each person; there's so many freedom and individuality in each koan. Thank you for the reference to Kafka, that's a beautiful passage. Peace to you all. May all being have peace, may all being be happy. --Wade Themiddleway PS Sorry for the slow reply to comments, I'm now in San Francisco Zen Center, internet access is still tricky ;) @Marnix; Thanks for both of your comments. Koans can be studied without being formally given by a teacher. They are still very useful and can illuminate the way. I have heard dharma talks given by teachers to the general public about Koans. The difference as I see it is that not being formal, it’s not part of a student training. Blue Cliff Record, The True Dharma Eye etc are books containing Rinzai and Soto Koans, there’s even a book out there containing ‘the answers’ to the koans that was published around 1970. I hear teachers can smell a ‘cheating’ student a mile away :)

Thank for your encouragement, we will continue to work with these Koans when I get access to the books again. I’ve got one saved up but haven’t had time to work with it.

@Matthew&Marnix; I like your points of view of the dancer and learning/developing.

@Nick; Yup, that’s the correct plural. Thank you also for your support of the koans. I agree with you, there’s no need to be anyone or anything to read and investigate a koan. They are just as personal and reflective to each person; there’s so many freedom and individuality in each koan. Thank you for the reference to Kafka, that’s a beautiful passage.

Peace to you all.

May all being have peace, may all being be happy.
—Wade
Themiddleway

PS Sorry for the slow reply to comments, I’m now in San Francisco Zen Center, internet access is still tricky ;)

]]> By: Nick Smith http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11774 Nick Smith Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:34:52 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11774 I know very little of Buddhism but I love these little koans (is that the correct plural). What I like best is how they are open to interpretation so they can speak to each one in the way that is most helpful. Perfect! Wade, your interpretation of this koan reminds me a passage I once read by Franz Kafka: You do not need to leave the room.... remain sitting at your table and listen Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked. It has no choice. It will roll in ecstasy at your feet. I know very little of Buddhism but I love these little koans (is that the correct plural). What I like best is how they are open to interpretation so they can speak to each one in the way that is most helpful. Perfect!

Wade, your interpretation of this koan reminds me a passage I once read by Franz Kafka:

You do not need to leave the room….
remain sitting at your table and listen
Do not even listen, simply wait.
Do not even wait, be still and solitary.
The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked.
It has no choice.
It will roll in ecstasy at your feet.

]]> By: Marnix http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11556 Marnix Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:55:07 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11556 Indead a dancer in TRAINING is stiff and formal, so is a meditator in training. But a long the path you learn how to move by knowing there is only you and in happiness we start to dance without some one telling us how to move, we just move and dance. So I do dance in grace. Indead a dancer in TRAINING is stiff and formal, so is a meditator in training. But a long the path you learn how to move by knowing there is only you and in happiness we start to dance without some one telling us how to move, we just move and dance. So I do dance in grace.

]]> By: Matthew Spears http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11500 Matthew Spears Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:06:12 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11500 Speak, and nothing is communicated. Force purity on yourself and bile appears. A dancer in training is stiff and formal. Forget how to dance and move in grace. <a href="http://www.loving-awareness.org" rel="nofollow">Loving Awareness</a> Speak, and nothing is communicated.
Force purity on yourself and bile appears.
A dancer in training is stiff and formal.
Forget how to dance and move in grace.

Loving Awareness

]]> By: Kraewinkels Marnix http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11470 Kraewinkels Marnix Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:27:48 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2007/11/06/dongshans-no-grass/#comment-11470 Very nice idea. Sure it's a good thing tho think about those koans. But then i thought they where personal given by a teacher only for the use of the student it was ment for at that time in his stage of development. But sure we can train the mind and learn; keep on sending. Be happy Marnix Very nice idea. Sure it’s a good thing tho think about those koans. But then i thought they where personal given by a teacher only for the use of the student it was ment for at that time in his stage of development.
But sure we can train the mind and learn; keep on sending.
Be happy
Marnix

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