Comments on: Studying the Self http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/ Commentaries on Meditation, Zen, Buddhism, and Mindfulness Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:13:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Wade http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-15249 Wade Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:24:00 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-15249 @Liara, That's exactly it :) When we have ideas we limit who we are. When we let go of what we think we know, we are able to learn and grow. We hold onto so many ideas, it's almost funny. @Casey, thank you for your beautiful understanding and poem. May all beings be happy. Gassho, Wade @Liara, That’s exactly it :) When we have ideas we limit who we are. When we let go of what we think we know, we are able to learn and grow. We hold onto so many ideas, it’s almost funny.

@Casey, thank you for your beautiful understanding and poem.

May all beings be happy.

Gassho,

Wade

]]> By: Casey http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-15224 Casey Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:28:16 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-15224 To study the self is to study everything and nothing at once. Everything we are is a single point of view. 1 point of view out of all points of view. To forget the self is to give up individual perception,which comes from the human mind in this life, and to embrace all perception which comes from one mind and all life it emanates. Time reveals to us our impermanence. At one time there was a you as you are now and everything else and then at death you become everything else and there is no you as you were. We are dreamers within a great dream and, upon waking, we will discover that the dream was and the dreamer was not. We created this to be both the center stage performer and also to be in the crowded audience of it. We have nothing to ask of life which it has not been telling us already in every moment. Listen to the sound of nothing and we will hear its voice. Feel the touch of nothing and we will feel its touch. See the sight which we cannot see and we will see its truest form. To study the self is to study everything and nothing at once. Everything we are is a single point of view. 1 point of view out of all points of view. To forget the self is to give up individual perception,which comes from the human mind in this life, and to embrace all perception which comes from one mind and all life it emanates. Time reveals to us our impermanence. At one time there was a you as you are now and everything else and then at death you become everything else and there is no you as you were. We are dreamers within a great dream and, upon waking, we will discover that the dream was and the dreamer was not. We created this to be both the center stage performer and also to be in the crowded audience of it. We have nothing to ask of life which it has not been telling us already in every moment. Listen to the sound of nothing and we will hear its voice. Feel the touch of nothing and we will feel its touch. See the sight which we cannot see and we will see its truest form.

]]> By: Liara Covert http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13834 Liara Covert Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:08:36 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13834 Great post. In my mind, to get to the point where i'm exploring deeper aspects of myself, I need to learn to move beyond those things I am convinced I already know. To transcend my limited perceptions enables me to truly grow. Great post. In my mind, to get to the point where i’m exploring deeper aspects of myself, I need to learn to move beyond those things I am convinced I already know. To transcend my limited perceptions enables me to truly grow.

]]> By: Wade http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13518 Wade Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:58:06 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13518 @Greg/@Evan, thank you both for such an enjoyable discussion over here. Was enjoying to watch unfold, and great to get other views on the topics. @James, Gassho to you my friend. Congratulations also for your nominations in the Blogisattva Awards. May we all awaken. Gassho, Wade Greg/Evan, thank you both for such an enjoyable discussion over here. Was enjoying to watch unfold, and great to get other views on the topics.

@James, Gassho to you my friend. Congratulations also for your nominations in the Blogisattva Awards.

May we all awaken.

Gassho,

Wade

]]> By: James http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13515 James Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:34:34 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13515 I find it beautiful how Zen incorporates so much of the basic, simple wisdom of Taoism. It is part of why I relate so much to the Zen tradition. Thanks for fleshing out this quote, I really enjoyed this post. I bow to the Buddha within you friend.... I find it beautiful how Zen incorporates so much of the basic, simple wisdom of Taoism. It is part of why I relate so much to the Zen tradition. Thanks for fleshing out this quote, I really enjoyed this post. I bow to the Buddha within you friend….

]]> By: gregor http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13494 gregor Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:06:41 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13494 Hi Wade, I'll be talking with you soon. I'm going to be shutting down my computer for three days. It's time return to practice and find the middle ground again. peace, Greg Hi Wade,

I’ll be talking with you soon. I’m going to be shutting down my computer for three days. It’s time return to practice and find the middle ground again.

peace,

Greg

]]> By: Gregor http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13452 Gregor Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:07:04 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13452 Hi Evan, No problems whatsoever, I'm glad you pointed out what you did. Yes, we probably are agreeing on the fundamentals. The rest is just piling stones atop stones. Hi Evan,

No problems whatsoever, I’m glad you pointed out what you did.

Yes, we probably are agreeing on the fundamentals. The rest is just piling stones atop stones.

]]> By: Evan http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13451 Evan Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:44:17 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13451 Hi Gregor, Thanks for your reply. I wasn't trying to be picky but to highlight the question about learning (in this case learning to spell) and zen practice. I think we agree about learning in the opposite direction. In the Tao the author talks about forgetting something everyday instead of learning. This captures it for me. I understand the distinction between immediate experience and reflection upon it. My evaluation of concepts is higher than the one usually given by zen. As soon as we communicate then concepts, ideas and worldviews are part of the story. For me the individual is a social-individual. Communication and language are part of who we are. Zen may be more individualist than this. I certainly can't claim expertise in it. I think when we sit with what is there is compassion and communication. And this communication can involve our worldview and concepts (though they can also - perhaps - usually do get in the way) although it may be silent also. I hope this makes some sense. I think we are agreeing on the fundamentals. Hi Gregor,
Thanks for your reply. I wasn’t trying to be picky but to highlight the question about learning (in this case learning to spell) and zen practice.

I think we agree about learning in the opposite direction. In the Tao the author talks about forgetting something everyday instead of learning. This captures it for me.

I understand the distinction between immediate experience and reflection upon it. My evaluation of concepts is higher than the one usually given by zen. As soon as we communicate then concepts, ideas and worldviews are part of the story.

For me the individual is a social-individual. Communication and language are part of who we are. Zen may be more individualist than this. I certainly can’t claim expertise in it. I think when we sit with what is there is compassion and communication. And this communication can involve our worldview and concepts (though they can also – perhaps – usually do get in the way) although it may be silent also.

I hope this makes some sense. I think we are agreeing on the fundamentals.

]]> By: Gregor http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13449 Gregor Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:54:06 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13449 Hi Evan. Thank you for pointing out my spelling mistake. I'm not sure if if points out a fault in my practice. Tit for tat, you neglected to capitalize "Zen" in your third paragraph. Is hypercriticism a flaw in your practice? Regardless, I appreciate you pointing out one of my many faults. I should be more thorough in checking what I post for errors. You are correct Zen does use many words. I'm glad you understand many a koan. That's really great. I suspect we are using words to describe something that can not be put into words. But, it is a valiant effort. I'm not sure what you mean by impure existing. I did mention existing purely -- which we could replace with existing organically or without unnecessary additions. What we learn with this practice is how to relinquish from our lives that which is not reality. To subtract the delusion and mental chatter. Please, consider the theory of Shikantaza -- the theory of Zazen plus zero. It is not a different kind of learning, No!!! But, learning in an opposite direction. Instead of taking a concept or idea and adding that to shape our world view, we drop those ideas and just experience whatever it is we are experiencing. So yes there is a place for learning. Assuming it's not the desire for learning that we are getting stuck on. Hi Evan.

Thank you for pointing out my spelling mistake. I’m not sure if if points out a fault in my practice. Tit for tat, you neglected to capitalize “Zen” in your third paragraph.

Is hypercriticism a flaw in your practice?

Regardless, I appreciate you pointing out one of my many faults. I should be more thorough in checking what I post for errors.

You are correct Zen does use many words. I’m glad you understand many a koan. That’s really great. I suspect we are using words to describe something that can not be put into words. But, it is a valiant effort.

I’m not sure what you mean by impure existing. I did mention existing purely—which we could replace with existing organically or without unnecessary additions.

What we learn with this practice is how to relinquish from our lives that which is not reality. To subtract the delusion and mental chatter. Please, consider the theory of Shikantaza—the theory of Zazen plus zero.

It is not a different kind of learning, No But, learning in an opposite direction. Instead of taking a concept or idea and adding that to shape our world view, we drop those ideas and just experience whatever it is we are experiencing.

So yes there is a place for learning. Assuming it’s not the desire for learning that we are getting stuck on.

]]> By: Evan http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13448 Evan Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:46:47 +0000 http://themiddleway.net/2008/02/24/studying-the-self/#comment-13448 Hi Gregor, You misspelt stacking. Does this indicate a mistake in your practise? if you see what I mean. Zen uses words, there's many a koan I understand. This has to do with spelling. Following a Roshi's instructions means comprehension of grammar as well as the topic discussed. What is impure existing? I understand the need for the 'ego' to get out of the way. This applies in learning everything I think (though no doubt more intensely with zen). Any learning deals with our experience with the concepts coming second (the idea that they can come first is due to lack of attention to experience in my view). I'm not sure that it is a different type of learning. Though it may have a very different goal. It seems to me that if the place of pure existing is a human one then it needs to have a place for learning. I hope this makes sense. Hi Gregor,

You misspelt stacking. Does this indicate a mistake in your practise? if you see what I mean.

Zen uses words, there’s many a koan I understand. This has to do with spelling. Following a Roshi’s instructions means comprehension of grammar as well as the topic discussed.

What is impure existing? I understand the need for the ‘ego’ to get out of the way. This applies in learning everything I think (though no doubt more intensely with zen). Any learning deals with our experience with the concepts coming second (the idea that they can come first is due to lack of attention to experience in my view).

I’m not sure that it is a different type of learning. Though it may have a very different goal. It seems to me that if the place of pure existing is a human one then it needs to have a place for learning. I hope this makes sense.

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