@Terry, Deepest respect, as always to you. Your warmth is always appreciated. I hope to continue sharing and growing with you, and all my other readers for a long time to come yet

@Jinn, Hi, I like your interpretation; it ‘fits’ nicely

May all beings be blessed by the Dharma.

Gassho,

Wade

When not producing thought, Mt. Sumeru is a mountain. When producing thought, it is still a mountain. In contemplating the mountain (in the context of the monk’s question), it may be that Yunmen’s response was meant to show the Monk that fault and no-fault are irrelevant when no thoughts are being produced.

That’s how I see it, anyway.

What a wonderful loving eye-opener. Thank you for creating it and exposing me to the brilliant mind.

Deepest respect always

Terry

My reason for my mention of Edmund Hilary was that he was a person and I guess I thought of him because he’s associated with mountains.

My point was that the reference was too a thoughtless insensate thing. Not a person. Why is the inorganic priveleged? I find this a worry in a lot of zen stuff. Why couldn’t the answer have been a person instead of a mountain?

It’s not possible for Mt Sumeru to be at fault. Is the point that if we do away with thought we become faultless? But as you say our thoughts are useful.

I simply don’t see why thoughts can’t participate in being. I certainly experience my thoughts as part of me, don’t you? If this is illusion why should it be so? It is not demonstrated that the meditative/thoughts-quieted state is better than thinking. I think that thinking and planning, passionate thought and engagement, is entirely compatible with compassion.

Certainly Mt Sumeru in thought. This is my point. As you note the mountain is a symbol in this koan. Symbols occur in thought.

Of course there is a place for thinking, it’s a tool to be used, not consuming of the person. Far to often we are lost in thought, trapped from reality and the present. We only learn, and live if we are outside of thought, present.

You’ve got to see this Koan as over 1000 years old, how could Edmund Hilary be the answer back then? Mountains for a long time have represented Buddha and Buddha Nature. It’s a loaded answer and test question at the same time. Even in the Modern Day, I wouldn’t answer this koan with anything that moves, or rapidly(vs a mountain) perishes like a human.

A koan in return to answer you; Even in thought, “Mount Sumeru”

@Tom, My pleasure. Dogen isn’t just a great Zen dude, he’s the founder of the Soto Zen Linage, which is the most common form of Zen today. His work is poetic, dialetic, profound, and simple at the same time. I always feel refreshed after reading his work. Enjoy.

@Karl, great to hear your starting to let go and open up into life. It’s a constant practice, a constant learning, but as Thich Nhat Hanh says, Peace is Every step.Not some destination, but all the way, from start to finish.

@Gary, thanks for the comments on the post, and your commentary. I like your image of the glistening ice cap cutting through the clouds of delusion. May we all see Mount Sumeru.

May all beings be happy.

Gassho,

Wade

“Don’t think, live” is a wonderful way to summarize the depth of Master Yunmen’s incisive response to the inquiring monk. That we are all ‘inquiring monks’ – one way or another – leads us to ponder the same question regarding these minds of ours. Seeing that each mind appears in the One Mind (that is in fact no ‘mind’ at all!) is our own moment of setting our eyes on Mount Sumeru. What a glorious sight!

G at ‘Forest Wisdom’/’Buddha Space’.

The koans always have commentary. Do we really value mountains more than incisive analysis?

It seems to me that our thoughts are part of our being. A part that can be misused certainly (I think it was Edward Tellar who decided to not work on the hydrogen bomb but then changed his mind because the problems involved “were so incredibly sweet”.) but then our emotions and actions are often misdirected also.

It seems to me that ‘thinking about’ has its place. Not the inflated place given it by our absurd schooling system, and certainly not in place of immediate experience, but a place none the less.

Isn’t Edmund Hilary scaling a mountain also worthy of contemplation? And it involved planning as well as having great awareness in the moment to moment doing of climbing.